When STUDENTS Fail – Should we FIRE Teachers?
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When STUDENTS Fail – Should we FIRE Teachers?
Public schools in America are failing. That is the statement we hear all the time and to some extent it is true. We have tried a lot of things to change this fact, but none has really changed the decline in test scores and drop-out rates.
In America we want simple answers to complex questions – something easy to understand and someone to BLAME.
I have seen this in corporate America many times. Sales are down, fire sales people, customer services is rated poor by customers shoot the customer service representatives.
In many cases the products were not very good and there wasn’t enough money to provide good customer service. These were management problems blamed on those at the bottom who had no power to fix the problems.
There has been a right-wing attack on public school teachers for as long as I can remember and it comes mostly from the fact most teachers are in a teacher’s unions and conservatives HATE unions.
Are teachers the major reason students do well in school? Can a good teacher transform bad students who refuse to learn into good students who become over achievers? Is it that easy – just hire the right teachers?
One of my closest friends spent 35 years as a public high school teacher. His answer to the above questions is NO!
What are the facts? It isn’t easy to understand this problem, but we can look at some of the facts.
1. Students in schools in middle-class and upper class areas do better than those in areas of poverty. Most schools failing are in the poverty areas.
2. Students with parents who have graduated from college do better than those with parents who didn’t graduate from high school
3. Students from two parent households do better than those from single parent households
4. Students in private schools, with small class sizes, do better than students in public schools with large class sizes
The above are facts reported by several independent organizations that analyzed all the data.
By the way for all you American chauvinists, European students do better than American students on tests. The biggest factor is the poverty rates in Europe is one-half (6%) the poverty rate in America (12.5%).
The above facts have nothing to do with unions. They do have to do with the facts that children come to school with different capabilities and support systems that impact their ability to do well in school.
My friend once told me that he would guarantee that every child in his class would both pass all the state tests and go to college if he could pick the students. He also said most of the better teachers avoid teaching, if they can the Z classes. He was in a system that had X, Y and Z classes. The Zs were the lowest performers, kids with problems, slow learners with reading problems, kids working at sub-grade level and these were both the hardest to teach and to manage. Many came from troubled homes.
The X classes were the high performers. Those headed for college that needed little motivation from teachers to excel.
So do teachers matter? Yes and no. Yes they matter and I still remember a few great teachers who knew their subjects, were excited to teach the subject and were great communicators. But like most of the people I worked with and managed for over 30 years all workers fall into three groups. This is the old three group part where someone, me this time, puts people in groups.
Group one, the people who meet all requirements for their jobs, group two are the people who exceed the requirements for their job and the last group are those who fail to meet the requirements of their job.
I managed for three companies and did job evaluations for many people over many years.
In my experience this usually breaks out as 60% meet, 20% exceed and 20% don’t meet the job requirements based on some objective measurements.
Of the 20% who don’t meet the job performance, over half can meet them with a few changes. Mostly all workers want to do the job well. Some need help to do that. This too depends on the hiring process and how good the company is at matching job requirements and also at training new employees.
When I was in college I worked many jobs, a few were union jobs. I saw the good and the bad about unions. They protect workers and sometimes they protect those workers who don’t meet the job requirements. So maybe the unions protect one-half of the 20% or 10% of workers they shouldn’t protect. Does that make them bad? I don’t think it does, because they do many positive things, like protecting workers from many employer evils. If the school principle could fire anyone they didn’t like, maybe they would fire teachers that are good at their jobs to hire friends?
Should bad teachers be fired? Of course they should, just as bad CEOs, corporate VPs, policemen and school principles should be fired.
By the way my friend always took some Z classes and tried to do the best he could with students who didn’t do well. He was a great teacher and he would probably be fired today because he couldn’t do the impossible – make ill prepared, unmotivated children living in poverty learn.
Obama and many others feel if a school, 300 plus teachers, is failing all the teachers should be fired. That is a simple answer to a complex problem that is WRONG.
Matthew 22:39-40
39"The second is like it, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
40" On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
Matthew 7:12 GOLDEN RULE -
12 “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.”
John 14:15 “If ye love me keep my commandments.”
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The Republican answer is to get rid of the public schools altogether. You're right about cultural differences. Our culture doesn't really emphasize learning and education. People in India treat all books as if they are sacred. It probably isn't surprising that academics are so valued there.
I've read a few reports about teachers being fired for failing students and I'm appauld. Its just downright ridiculous to blame a teacher for the student lacking motivation to learn or are the rebelious types. I'm wondering on what grounds the administration has to fire the teacher. Is there a law or policy that says that if X amount of students dont pass the Y grade, funding gets cut or teachers get fired or etc. I've been trying to find some form of answer to that for quit awhile. if you know of anyone, or you, have insight on this please email me at butters07@live.com
thank you









Learn Things Web Level 2 Commenter 13 months ago
"European students do better than American students on tests. The biggest factor is the poverty rates in Europe is one-half (6%) the poverty rate in America (12.5%)."
Unfortunately, even when the scores of the top 5 to 10% of scorers are compared on international tests, the US stills comes last or close to last. So, even our best and brightest students don't compare well to their peers in other countries. I think the biggest factor is low expectations. Our schools are way too easy compared to those in other countries. I don't know who is to blame for that. I seriously doubt teachers are solely responsible. It is more of a system problem.